In this episode, join Ben and Eva as they delve into the realm of personal growth and development. From the candid conversations about the journey of growth to the beauty of embracing the process, they explore the power of introspection and self-discovery. Eva reflects on the significance of being intentional in her work, and how it has shaped her journey so far. Delving into recent insights, Eva and Ben discuss phrases that have recently become instrumental in Eva's, offering listeners a glimpse into ongoing transformation. Join us as we celebrate the continuous journey of growth, reminding ourselves that there's beauty in the process and that we're never truly done evolving. Tune in for an insightful and uplifting conversation that may just spark a newfound perspective on your own journey.
Ben Derrick 0:04
Welcome to the Sex God and Chaos podcast, a conversation built to help you address the mess, connect the dots and defeat addiction. Doing your work matters because if nothing changes, then nothing changes. Life is tough, and we're here to help. I'm your host, Ben Derrick. And as always, I'll be joined by Roane Hunter. Let's jump right in. Eva back for another episode.
Eva Hunter 0:28
Well, hey, I'm glad to be back.
Ben Derrick 0:30
How about that? You show up, you start recording, you realize how much you love this process. And you're back and our listening audience could not be more thankful. We had a moment talking about intensives, sast episode. It was a little bit of intense conversation because it involves being very intentional about your work and then doing work as a couple. And so this episode, we thought we would back up just a little bit, drop some information, maybe even in a little bit of a shorter format to say, hey, we have found, you have found these phrases to be very helpful lately in your own growth, which by the way, Let's applaud that for a second. That growth is still occurring. I know this came up in one of our previous episodes, but we're never done growing. There is no arrival. And now I really get a lot of relief with that thought. It's not that there's a destination I'm trying to reach and I'm late getting there. Yeah, we're all in a growth process. Right? Exactly. So these phrases for you have been important in your growth recently. I'm so eager to hear about them. And we get to capture this from mic, which is very cool.
Eva Hunter 1:33
Oh, good. Good. Well, Roane and I got to go to the fallen and free conference. It was in February this year 2024. And it was in Jupiter, Florida at the sanctuary with Tully Tchvidjian.
Ben Derrick 1:52
Yes, right. tchividjian. He says it sounds like the end is religion. Oh, I like that. Yeah, that helps me remember right. Yeah, but I think he's used to everyone messing that up. Yeah, I just call him Tully because I know I can remember that. Exactly. Exactly. This guy's a wild man. Right. Yeah. I've never met him in person. But you have how was that?
Eva Hunter 2:10
It was wonderful. Yeah.
Ben Derrick 2:12
speaking of intensity, this guy's intense. He's intense, right? Yeah, he's got a lot of energy. Yeah. Any man who's like done his own work loves Jesus in his tattoo down to his knuckles. I'm in.
Eva Hunter 2:23
I know exactly. It was such a great experience. To spend two days in that setting. This is an annual thing. Right? It is. And I cannot wait to go again.
Ben Derrick 2:36
So I'm going to go to the next one.
Eva Hunter 2:37
You should Yes.
Ben Derrick 2:39
This year coincided with his book release. Which is I think going crazy. His book is going crazy. Which is nice. Right? You to be that vulnerable publicly and for people to appreciate it is cool. But it's full of this kind of stuff that we're about to talk about today.
Eva Hunter 2:54
Yes and I can't remember who said what Steve Brown was a speaker. Nate Larkin was the speaker and Tully and it's I'm not sure who said what, but these quotes are what have really just kind of integrated into my heart. And where I kind of hang out with these days thinking about and, but here they are, okay, one of them is, "The road from sympathy to empathy is our own suffering."
Ben Derrick 3:30
Can we let that land for a minute? Right? Right. So I hear the words and the initially my heart is like, Gross. Gross, but it does sound very true. Like for someone to say, Oh, I'm really sympathize with you. Feels like that's from a distance. You know? RIght. I can empathize with you means I have been where you are. Yeah, we need to have a conversation over here. I've got some things to share with you. Right? Yes, yes yeah. We can feel that when we're with people. Right. I want to be surrounded by empathetic people. Me too. Not pathetic people.
Eva Hunter 4:04
Not pathetic. Yes. Yeah. So that's really, it's helped me see the gift of my own suffering. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, right. Yeah. That now I do feel like I'm definitely more empathetic with others. Because of my own suffering.
Ben Derrick 4:27
It brings to mind that verse out of the sacred texts of Christianity, that God works everything together for the good, man has that been misused? Yeah. A lot from pulpits. To tell people just to get over themselves, or it's gonna be fine, or the bad stuffs good t, whatever, whatever the preachers say. But the way you're describing it, that makes a lot of sense. You know, the pain in your story actually allows you, helps you to connect better with other people. Yeah, that's very well said. Yes. Congratulations who ever said it.
Eva Hunter 5:02
Yeah, that was awesome. Another one is, The law is for the hard hearted and grace is for the brokenhearted."
Ben Derrick 5:13
So that's a little bit of a religion attack. Yeah. I'm okay with that. You're okay with that?
Eva Hunter 5:19
Totally. I'm okay with that. Totally. I was of the law.
Ben Derrick 5:25
Okay. I was about to ask why is this so important to you?
Eva Hunter 5:28
Okay, you because I was very black and white, and I was of the law. Okay, which now I realize it made me more hardhearted towards others and judgmental. Right. Yeah. But grace when I experience somebody, brokenhearted, or you know, they're really beginning to own their brokenness. Yeah, right. Yeah. Now I have so much grace for that. Yeah.
Ben Derrick 5:55
Yeah, that's beautiful. I grew up inside of the church, and there's so many great things about it. And I'm not even saying this is their fault may have been mine. But confusing those two things law and grace or that only have grace, so that can be better at the law, you know, that was my translation. And man did I give it a great shot? Until, you know, all hell broke loose, and it didn't work out anymore. But the people who are brokenhearted, I think that's what they're looking for. is grace. A plan, as we've discussed on previous episodes, I need a plan. But that plan needs to be grace filled. It doesn't need to be you measure up to this or else right, exactly. That's what we often hand to other people that's really well said, Is this whole list this way?
Eva Hunter 6:38
Somewhat. Wow. Yes, that's right. And even I know, in my own relationship, and I'm going to say in my marriage, my own relationship in my marriage. When Roane comes to me with maybe some hard news. But he comes with kind of remorse, you know, or a contrite heart. Yeah. Like, I can have grace for that. Yeah, that's easier to match. That is, that is definitely okay. So another one is, "Shame is rooted in fear."
Ben Derrick 7:12
Shame is rooted in fear. Okay, so shame is the result of or like grows out of, or?
Eva Hunter 7:21
I think, because if people know me, if they really know me, they're not going to love me. They're not going to accept me. Okay. So shame is you know, hiding, I'm going to hide because I have shame. I'm not going to let you really know me, because the shame is what's keeping me rooted away from you.
Ben Derrick 7:41
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It is the fear of rejection. Yes. Yeah. Did you have that? Have you had that? absolutely? No. Really? Yes.
Eva Hunter 7:54
I think we all have a level of that. I think. Okay. Yeah. I think a lot of people have that, maybe not Roane.
Ben Derrick 8:06
Next episode I'll hit him with that.
Eva Hunter 8:09
I shouldn't even bring up his name he's not here to defend himself.
Ben Derrick 8:12
It does feel very tribal, though. Doesn't it?
Eva Hunter 8:14
I will say that's a wrong statement. Because I know that he doesn't want to be rejected either. Yeah, nobody does.
Ben Derrick 8:22
If you send us out of the village, we're going to starve to death, right? So we have to do what it takes to fit in. It doesn't feel like though to almost add salt. But I think that's a bad word. To address our shame. We have to address fear, right? You know, I see a lot of people that are trying to do their work around shame. We never talk about what they're afraid of. But that's a big question inside of our communities, right? What are you afraid of afraid? What are you afraid of? Right? And if you go changing that question, by the way, what are you afraid of, you completely change the answer, if you change the question. So to push away from that, I think is a really really bad idea. And some communities are doing this because we don't want to confess fear and those sorts of things. But I believe that just creates a place for shame to exist without it being addressed. I think that could be an entire episode, actually, you know, shame and fear and how those two things operate together. Yeah, powerful, quote.
Eva Hunter 9:22
Powerful. I know shame is rooted in fear. Another one, and this is the last one. "act your way into right thinking."
Ben Derrick 9:32
Act your way in the right thinking.
Eva Hunter 9:34
So when you look at the addiction cycle, yes, this is the way it spoke to me. Okay. When you look at the addiction cycle, we will start and we'll draw a little cloud above the cycle and we will put distorted thinking there. Okay, right. That's what drops you in, drops you into the addictive cycle. Okay.
Ben Derrick 9:57
I can Yeah, I see that.
Eva Hunter 9:58
But e're trying to change the thinking in ourselves, right to have right thinking, but we've got to act ourselves into right thinking. Gotcha. Or so that's the way it spoke to me.
Ben Derrick 10:11
Yeah yeah. It's kind of like it feels a little bit like, just for the job you want. Not the job you have. Right. But there's some things I've got to change in my life. Yes. In order for my thinking to change as well. Yeah. Right. If, you know, I find this one really interesting, because I see so many. And I'll just pick on men, because I am one. But I see so many men that are like, you know, what's going to fix this? I'm going to change spouses. That's what's gonna fix this. Because there's a woman on Facebook, that man, that was electric, and it didn't feel like this. That's right. Yeah. So I'm going to, I'm going to change my spouse, right? Or I'm gonna, you know, so there's certain sorts of actions that you put in place, but they have to be healthy. Because you can have different actions that are actually joining along with that broken part and only only exaggerating it right? Yes, yeah. But there is. And this gets back, I think, to the community piece that we talked about so often, right? How do I know which actions are going to change my thinking in a good way, which can change in a bad way, I have to be willing to sit in a group. And man I love on this. And I assume this happens in the women's groups as well, when a guy's talking about something and a guy across the circle, who's usually just a little bit older, is able to say, That's a terrible idea. We don't give advice here. But I can tell you when I did that, the way that it ended us. Right, right. Yeah, that's, that's beautiful. All of those are very intriguing for me. But I have just a personal question. If you don't mind, sir. Like which one for you is just man, that is gold. That's the thing that's going to help me over the next couple of weeks really grow? Is there one that stands out the most? Um,
Eva Hunter 12:02
gosh, I think maybe the road from sympathy to empathy is our own suffering. was the one that stood out to me the most. Yeah. Because it made helped me make sense of my own suffering. That what the gift was, to me,
Ben Derrick 12:20
I love that phrase it just used right there not not to blow past the fight that you chose that one, but the fact that it helps something that made a little bit of sense. I mean, you've done some work around that. Right? right. Sure. But it helped it make even more sense.
Eva Hunter 12:20
Yeah. Just in that statement, right. Exactly. Also, to have empathy for my story, my own story, to instead of sympathy because to me, sympathy can easily put some, I think, can put someone in a victim mindset. Okay, but empathy is like, of course. No kidding. Wow, that affected you? Yeah, no kidding. So
Ben Derrick 13:03
being able to say that to yourself, yourself? Yeah. Well, there's a lot of, there's a lot packed in that isn't there to be able to say to yourself, hey, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. I love when I can see those moments happen between two people. But the way you're describing it just feels even better, that I can be in a moment, or in a circumstance and I can have a reaction or a feeling or even be tempted to go back to an old costly coping mechanism. And instead of moving into shame and judgment, I can say, well, that that makes sense. Based on my own story, that makes sense. It makes you know, for me, the one about fear and shame, obviously, with how the conversation picked up. That one really grabbed me. Did it? Yeah. Yeah. Because I have a fear based. I don't know the clinical language to it. But I have a fear based personality.
Eva Hunter 14:01
Because you've often said, I've heard you say, I've heard you say that you're a counter intuitive. Six on the inner counter
Ben Derrick 14:09
phobic. Oh, counter phobic, counter phobic, so I'm gonna I'm gonna move towards that fear. Yeah, try to exercise some control over it. But that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense as one who was just kind of clipping along live and then gets a cancer diagnosis. You know, it makes sense that I would have a fear base. It was already there. Okay, so let's not blame it all on cancer. That would be easy to do. I've done a lot of work around that. But cancer only made it more real. To think you don't ever know when that's going to happen again. When's the reoccurrence? Yeah, and the trouble is, it spills out into other areas of life. You know, never. The thing is we talk these things out and never really where it's born is not where it stays the rest of its life and moves out into all these other areas. Oh, man, somebody's got to contain this right. But being able to explain these things, and I think we could say today, even just having some verbiage around it to be able to share with other people, right, you know, the exercise that we've done today, I think would be great inside of a group environment. I do too, to say, hey, these phrases are this phrase, that's a way to be vulnerable without saying, Let me tell you about the house I grew up in. That can be a little frightening. So a good place to start. And but you're not at the beginning of your work. A good place to pick up just with current. You know, it's the reason why I wanted to have this conversation today behind the mic is because I think there's this fallacy that we can just disclose or share or talk about us 15 years ago, or 15 months ago, you would say that the too. Yeah, you and I would say that's not a good idea. We, need to talk about those seeds, but we got to reveal in the now.
Eva Hunter 16:00
Right, right. What are we struggling with today? Yeah.
Ben Derrick 16:04
And the way that you've talked about it today is not even just what you're struggling with. But what what strikes you and that tells you something about you? Right? It tells me something about you. Right? Yeah. And in the fact that that, that my close second, by the way, was the religious thing.
Eva Hunter 16:21
The law allows for the hardhearted Yeah, for the brokenhearted. Yeah.
Ben Derrick 16:26
I have to be honest to say I with you that I've been both, you know, and I'm not super proud of the law guy.
Eva Hunter 16:36
Oh, no, me neither.
Ben Derrick 16:37
You know, I like have to hide that guy a lot.
Eva Hunter 16:39
I have to hide her too. She's not attractive. Yeah.
Ben Derrick 16:43
Unfortunately, there's a lot of recordings out there of me, being a pastor and kind of losing my way in some things. So doing some work to try to accept that part of my, my growth process is a little difficult. But this has been a really interesting exercise to just take these phrases that feel a little bit benign, and you know, almost like social media like saying, Whoa, these are these actually have power if I stop and think about them for a moment. Yeah, you know, what could what difference could 15 minutes and conversation with another around a key phrase do for someone today? Exactly. You know, I love that we should do this more?
Eva Hunter 17:18
I know, definitely. I want to be the person
Ben Derrick 17:22
that reads about the smart things. I'll just sit behind the microphone to talk about it. Roane has trained me well.
Eva Hunter 17:29
Well, I'm glad that you know with me, I feel like you get to talk more. Yeah.
Ben Derrick 17:34
Yeah thats true.I have space to be me when you're here.
Eva Hunter 17:39
And you have a lot to share that's good stuff.
Ben Derrick 17:42
There you go. Okay, well, hopefully you guys have enjoyed these phrases and do this for us. If you have one that's important to you. Reach out. Let us know hop on rate the podcast and say, Hey, this is one of my phrases. And maybe in a future episode, we can kick thrown out again. And you and I can do this with the honor with Yeah, with listener phrases. That would be cool.
Eva Hunter 18:05
All right, let's do it.
Ben Derrick 18:09
To learn more about what you've heard today, and to engage with the sex god and chaos team, visit sex god chaos.com
Transcribed by https://otter.ai