In this episode, we dive into the importance of community for women experiencing trauma in their relationships. Lyschel Burket of Hope Redefined shares that every woman's journey is different, but when given the opportunity to step into safe community, the ability to get back to a place of safety and stabilization is much shorter. Many women who navigate this in isolation or in unhealthy communities prolong their pain. Although spouses can contribute to their partner's healing, they cannot heal them. Lyschel emphasizes the need for women to recognize that healing can come from being in a safe community and experiencing empathy from others who understand what is going on. Tune in to hear about the positive impact of community on women's healing from trauma.
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Ben Derrick 0:04
Welcome to the Sex, God and Chaos podcast, a conversation built to help you address the mess, connect the dots and defeat addiction. Doing your work matters because if nothing changes, then nothing changes. Life is tough, and we're here to help. I'm your host, Ben Derrick. And as always, I'll be joined by Roane Hunter. Let's jump right in.
Roane Hunter 0:27
Today we have a special guest, as we often do. We have Lyschel Burket with us. Lyschel is with Hope Redefined. It's a ministry, a coaching ministry, and she is a coach. She works with partners, partners of betrayal. And we - Lyschel and I have shared some work in the past. And I'd asked her if she would be willing to join us on the podcast, because in just getting to know her, they do great work at Hope Redefined. And anytime we find somebody doing good work, we want to we want to get the word out because there's there are people that might not qualify for that. But but she does and Hope Redefined does as well. So Lyschel, glad to have you with us today.
Lyschel Burket 1:26
Thanks for having me Roane. I'm really looking forward to this.
Roane Hunter 1:29
Oh, yeah. So just give us give our listeners a little background, kind of how you stumbled into this work? And just, you know, how long how long have you been doing it? And what's it been like?
Lyschel Burket 1:45
Yeah, okay, so I'm the executive director of Hope Redefined. We've been an organization since 2018, nonprofit organization. And as you can potentially guess, my passion came from having my own story of betrayal, and my husband's addiction to pornography. So it started, he actually disclosed his addiction, about 18 months into our marriage. And at that point in time, I was, I think, in the very beginning, my first reaction was to be an advocate and a great supporter, and just really encourage him to get whatever help he needed.
Not really understanding at the time, the impact that it was having on me, I was just really committed to being a good friend in this season, and you know, a young bride. And so about five months after he had started his own group, or he had started in a group, he actually went out on a work trip, and he relapsed while he was on the work trip. And when he came home, and confessed that, by the grace of God, which I know not all guys do that. But when he came home and confessed, I would tell you that that is when the betrayal and the trauma really started to set in for me, and began to experience my own pain at a different level that I wasn't anticipating. There was so much abandonment. And I did later find out that he didn't disclose the whole truth right at the beginning. So there was more of a trickle disclosure at that point. And so that led me on my own personal journey of trying to find out what to do with me. I felt like the support we had gotten to that point was pretty clear about what to do with my husband, like these were the resources that they had available for him. But there wasn't a whole lot, well there was nothing really said to me or given to me or advocated for me, it was just kind of a wait and see. That's what I felt like was the, the the unspoken expectation of what I was supposed to be doing. And yet I could feel myself just so broken, and so hurt and confused by all of what his choices were and how they were impacting me. So it led me on a journey to try and seek out safe relationships with others. I didn't really find a whole lot that was in this area of betrayal, and sexual betrayal specifically, but I did find a safe group of other women who were willing to do honest, raw relationship and whatever wherever they were. And that was a real gift for me. And it allowed me to start the healing process of recognizing, you know, all the truths that we need to know in the beginning that I didn't cause this. I'm not the reason he's choosing to do what he's doing. And that I can heal, regardless of what he chose, I could actually heal because that was the desire of the Lord's heart for me is to heal. That led me into I think it was 2012. I actually ended up launching a group at my church with fear and trembling. I did not think I was equipped to do that at all. But the Lord was just opening doors and that very first group I had nine women sitting in this room with me and we all had very similar stories. They weren't exactly the same. But what I knew to be true was that, one, we were all there because of some form of betrayal in our marriages. And the second thing was the only marching orders, I felt like that God had given me was just to create a safe space. And I thought I can do that I can make a safe space. And so I started a group at my church, and had those nine women with me for a good 10 months. And then it just started, you know, rotating and new women would come and other women would leave saying they felt you know, better. And after five years of doing that, I eventually felt the Lord prompting me to move into making a ministry out of it. And so that's where we're at today. We're almost five years old. And we actually love and care for women and support them all over the world. Most of our work is done virtually. So we have online groups that we're running pretty consistently. We do a retreat that we offer twice a year, we call it an intensive healing retreat. So we're being honest, that is intense, but it's good. We also are, we have a group of professional coaches who are part of our team, we have six women who are trained through an organization called App SATs. And so this is our career. It's not just something that we've decided, Hey, I got a story so I can coach. And then we also have an online community that we manage on a regular basis to help women find safe community, wherever they are.
Roane Hunter 6:31
Awesome. I love that you said that you've got you've got professional coaches that actually have training, not just a story. And certainly, I think, you know, those two things are important. One thing I'm curious about, early in your story, when you said that your husband admitted-- disclosed to you that they had a problem with pornography, but it didn't really, it didn't hit you as betrayal until kind of the the second or his being honest about his slip, relapse, often say, I don't know what the where the line is between those two. But you know what I'm saying. What do you think was different the second time?
Lyschel Burket 7:25
I think what was different the second time was I, after the first reveal, and him just, you know, sharing, hey, I'm really struggling with this. He I, I interpreted his commitment to going in the group and to reading books and, you know, gaining these new relationships with people who were seeking honesty and integrity that that was His new covenant, essentially. Right. I knew that on our wedding day, we had stood there and, you know, had agreed to honor one another. But in this particular area, I felt like his commitment to step into his own healing work meant he was done. And he was not going to actually go back to that. So I really took that as a new promise. And so that second time, that relapse, revealed to me that he had broken his promise. And I think that was part of it. The other thing was, I will say is that my understanding of pornography early on was really skewed. I came from a home that was not we were not a Christian home, it wasn't Christian focused. I had adult men, adult, adult men in my life who had their own pornography use, and they were not shy about it at all. It was very, unfortunately, the consumption of women was really normal in in my childhood, and things like that. So when my husband confessed, you know, there was that part of me where I still had that belief system, well all guys struggle with this right? Or they all look at it. So but but his brokenness and his saying, I don't want to do this anymore. I took as a, like I said, an agreement, like we're not going to do that anymore. And I believed him. And so when that set when that relapse happened, I think that's where that legit betrayal came in, like you said, and now you're not.
Roane Hunter 9:15
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, in working with partners, do you find that to be common? Especially, you know, what, one of the things that we see today is, like younger wives, younger women. There's kind of this acceptance in a way that well, you know, every, every guy's looking at porn. And it's just more of kind of a blase attitude or whatever attitude. But over time, that begins to change when they begin to realize that this is not good. But do you see that in your work today? With younger younger wives, younger women around, kind of have more of a laid back attitude towards a husband or partner looking at porn?
Lyschel Burket 10:09
Absolutely. I mean, we see it I refer to them as young brides, right? Our younger brides, women who maybe are even as young as 18, 19, into their 20s, even if it's their first marriage and they're in their 30s, there's still this unknown, I think that comes up for them is, what am I allowed to have a voice about. And many of them recognize that their husbands were potentially doing this behavior before they ever got married. A lot of them even know about it, they know that he's been looking at porn, prior to them getting married, I think that a lot of them fall into the thought process, which in the thinking that my husband even had shared on his own is, he really thought that once he got married, it would go away. He just didn't think it would be a problem anymore. And it didn't, obviously, because what was driving his behaviors was stress and insecurities and gosh, if those don't amplify once you're now living in the same house with somebody. Right? Your -- just your world starts to become more stressful. So yeah, I do see that. And then you do, you eventually will begin to see this shift, where she starts to recognize the impact that it's having on her. And how she's suddenly realizing she doesn't want to go away on a girls trip that she was invited on, because she doesn't want to worry about him looking at porn the whole time when she's gone. And so she's -- over the course of time, there's these moments of recognizing, you know, she's, she's starting to assess the safety of leaving him alone, right, which is terrible. And no woman really wants to live a lifestyle like that. But it's, it's a part of the realization of this is what my husband does when he's left alone. And, and I don't want to endure that anymore. And so there is this there is this shift like you said.
Roane Hunter 12:00
Yeah, it seems that, you know, it's like these guys, young guys, you know, they'll, they'll keep doing it until the wife, the young bride, I love that term, kind of begins to speak up, stand up and say, No, we're not gonna, I'm not gonna be in relationship with this. I love you. But I don't like this behavior. And that's got to change. And certainly, that is sometimes, you know, the wake up call for for the husband, in those situations, because the wife is beginning to realize that she's being objectified and being used in and certainly that's just what the, you know, pornography produces is the distorted thinking around this, you know, self gratification. And so, yeah, we we see that often. And just, you know, in working with partners, help us understand, help our listeners, as far as your work with partners in kind of the, you know, the timeframe, it's always interesting to me, just kind of everybody is moving at their own pace. But what do you see generally, as far as timeframe from, let's just call it discovery day, when, you know, she finds out and I'm, I'm gonna generalize and you know, the husband is the one dealing with sexual brokenness, and you know, the wife is dealing with betrayal trauma, certainly those roles are reversed more and more these days, but just for our discussion purposes, what do you see, in general, like timeframe, from discovery to stabilization, normalization, kind of back to feeling like the world is, is stabilized?
Lyschel Burket 14:07
That's a great question. Every woman is so different in their story, right? It's going to have different nuances to really give us a sense of a timeframe around that. So unfortunately, say this often in our community that it takes as long as it takes. But what I will say is when I see women, given the opportunity to step into safe community with others who understand what's going on, her ability to get back to a place of safety and stabilization like you mentioned, that timeframe is much shorter than women who navigate this in isolation and alone, or they're in communities that are not healthy. That maybe it's uh, you know, I always joke about you know, you got the sister, right, your sister you call her and then she just like, wants to cut his tires and beat him up and you're like, that's not helping you know?
Roane Hunter 14:59
Yeah.
Lyschel Burket 15:00
And yeah, that's not healthy, safe community necessarily. It might be safe for you, but it doesn't mean she's leading you in a direction that's about healing. So I think that for every woman, the journey is different. But I will say that the gift of community has been such a pivotal moment for so many women of being able to say, I have the ability to come here and share my pain and be loved right where I am. And part of their frustration, and even the prolonging of their pain has been that for so long, they would go to their husband, and share the pain. The husband doesn't know what to do with it, or in his own poor coping skills, he deflects, minimizes, maybe even moves into emotional abuse with her pain. And it keeps them in this perpetual cycle. And so she's looking to him to heal her. But the truth is that he doesn't have those tools to do that. And the other truth is, when you go back to the word -right? to the Bible, our husbands were never put here to heal us. We only were given one person named Healer. And that was Jesus. And so I for my, in my own story, I had to come to that realization of being like my husband, he can't actually heal me, he can contribute to my healing. He can do intentional things in his own recovery, but and he can also learn relational skills that are super important, like learning how to show up for me when I'm triggered. And it not become a conflict or a fight. But it become a place where he shows empathy, and steps towards me that's going to be contributing to my healing, but he's not going to actually be able to heal me. And it's one of those things that we all just need that moment, that aha moment and to recognize that part of our healing can come from getting into community, and being able to see that and experience that with others. So
Roane Hunter 16:56
Oh, yeah, yeah. You're, you're speaking our language. Because we, we always tell people, the cure for what ails you, it is connection, and to be connected into a group of others on either side of the fence, is going to facilitate your healing in such a greater way than sitting in a counseling office one hour a week, because even brain research today shows that we heal best in in groups with others that have had similar and like experiences. And it just, it's always interesting to me, that there's no secret sauce, no magic bullet, other than, I've got to get connected in a community of people that are like-minded and moving in the same direction. And that's true on both sides of the fence. As you said, basically, you got two people that are emotionally dysregulated. You know, when, in my own story, I didn't know how to deal with my own emotions. Because the sexual addiction, that was the coping mechanism. And so now, I'm emotionally dysregulated. And so was Eva, my wife was emotionally dysregulated, because of the betrayal trauma. And it's like, everybody's spinning. And so having these groups and getting connected in those groups is so essential. And I know, that was one of the things that when you and I met and talked the first time, you know, you get it, and there's a lot of people that don't. And it's just, it's, I hope, if anybody's listening to the podcast, or people that are listening, it's like, I hope that's -- if they don't take away anything else, I hope they, hope they hear that and find a group, because it's so important.
Lyschel Burket 18:59
Well, and here's the win to that understanding, right? If a husband chooses not to get well, and he chooses not to step into recovery, she can still heal. Because it's not dependent on him getting to a certain point or place in his own healing journey in order for her to start healing. This is something that she can do, independent of him. Now the relationship may not heal yet, because the relationship is going to require two healthy people working to repair that relationship. But I think that's one of the things that feels empowering for us and moves us from a place of being a victim to a place of being a victor because suddenly we get to decide that our healing, that my heart's healing is worth it. And I don't have to wait on my husband to get to a certain level before that happens for me, I can do that independent from him. And then we can go back and focus on the relationship if and when that comes.
Roane Hunter 19:59
Yeah, so so important. It's like, you know, either way, the partner is gonna have to do some of their their own work, whether the marriage survives or not. And, you know, the best way to do that is certainly connected in community with others. Because, you know, the marriage may not make it, the husband may not choose to get well. And, you know, having a support group, that support community is going to be essential, either way. So it's almost like this is essential work. For sure.
Lyschel Burket 20:42
Yeah.
Roane Hunter 20:44
So let's talk about disclosures. And doing disclosure, going into that setting. It's an anxiety ridden event, I think on both sides. Oftentimes, the story in the betrayed partner's head, not always, but a lot of times, you know, the story is worse than the reality. And you know, I know you've-- you do disclosures, and, you know, when, when it goes, well, it's amazing. Most couples that we work with will talk about the formal full disclosure was a pivotal, pivotal shift in their in their recovery. And so I think it is important knowing how to do disclosures. So just talk about that, and how you work with disclosure.
Lyschel Burket 21:42
Yeah, so it is actually at this point in my work, it is the only kind of clients I actually work with on a regular basis, as I'm helping to support women prepare for their full therapeutic disclosures. This is a place that I think so many women have navigated historically a disclosure all on their own. And they've stepped into these appointments, where a counselor has said, hey, the husband needs to just tell you everything. So can you show up on Thursday. And what we have learned in the course of history is that that is actually for many women, that's a new trauma. And there's so much that comes out on those days that she's not prepared for she's not given tools, and the care that she needs to walk through that process is really limited, if any at all. And so one of the things I get to do is be that support system for women. And what I love about what I get to do is, like you said, I have so many couples, who will say that that disclosure was so important to their healing process. Because it's not just about telling the truth. It's also about her having the opportunity to share her own impact her own story, how did this, how did all of this betrayal impact her as a person and giving him the opportunity to sit with that. Like, the visual I give husbands a lot of times is like, she's, she's being vulnerable enough to hand you the broken pieces of her heart. And that's vulnerable, that takes a lot for a woman to be able to do that through words. And so that's that letter of impact of being able to say this is my brokenness. Now, he may not he can't fix it, right. But what he can do is he can hold it, and he can care for it, and respect it and honor it in that moment. And then that last step of the disclosure is usually the letter of restitution. And that's his opportunity to make an amends and share what the future looks like for him and how he's going to do it differently. So the the second part of that therapeutic disclosure process is the letter of impact. And this is her opportunity to share her truth. And what we know is that truth leads to safety. And safety leads to rebuilding of trust. And so if both parties are allowed to share their truth, in that experience, they're already starting to move toward safety, which is what we're all hoping for. But the letter of impact is her opportunity to share how this has impacted her as an individual and maybe even speak on behalf of her children. And then it's but it's, but what it is, is it's actually an incredibly vulnerable space for her because the picture I like to give husbands when we're stepping into that session is she has a ton of brokenness. And what she's asking you to do is to just hold the broken pieces of her heart. You don't have to fix it. You don't have to do anything with it. But just acknowledging how fragile it is, is part of the healing process. And it's powerful. And then followed by that is the letter of restitution, which is him being able to come in and offer what repair looks like and even owning parts of what she shared in that impact letter of saying, and I didn't know Oh, I didn't know that my porn addiction impacted your identity so much, or I didn't know that the reason you haven't worn a bathing suit in 10 years is because of my porn and because of my porn use, like him acknowledging that he's understood and learned something from her impact is still continued parts of the healing process. And so like you said, when it's done well, when it's done well, it is a very healing process.
Roane Hunter 25:27
Yeah, I love the passage in Revelation you shared that sometimes you'll share with husbands around just their, their, their disclosure, their testimony.
Lyschel Burket 25:42
Yeah, so yeah, I will share about that I, I just have a real sense that disclosure work is actually spiritual warfare. And so all spiritual warfare is is replacing lies with truth. And so the disclosure in and of itself is replacing lies with truth, which means either he's created lies, minimization, manipulations, whatever that looks like to give her a false sense of the story, or she's been given very little. So she just wrote her own story. Either way that disclosure is replacing lies with truth. The same is true about the letter of impact. But the thing I love to tell guys, when we get started is in for couples in and of themselves is that in Revelations, I think it's 12. It says they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. And I get the gift of working with most Christian couples. And I'll say, if you're a believer in Jesus, you've already overcome the enemy by the blood of the Lamb. And so this is the next step in that Scripture is by the word of your testimony, you're sharing your testimony amongst witnesses, in order for you to continue that freedom journey of moving into deeper freedom, and that the enemy doesn't get to torment you anymore with secrets. It's all out there. And it's not out there just in front of your wife. It's out there in front of these other two people, who you you know, a support person for him and a support person for her that is in that position of really wanting to move you towards freedom too. So we've all got the same agenda. But I love being able to give couples that opportunity to view this work through the lens of it being spiritual, just as much as relational. Or marital I guess I should say, because spiritual is relational. But I think it shifts the way we do battle and the way we approach the disclosure process.
Roane Hunter 27:35
Absolutely. And it certainly is, in in that realm, in so important. So I think, Boy, that's a, that's a great word to end on. And just so appreciate you being with us. Appreciate the work that you do. If our listeners want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that?
Lyschel Burket 28:02
Sure, they can seek us out, we're on Facebook and Instagram, but they can also find our website at hoperedefined.org. Hoperedefined.org. I'm also a co host on a podcast called Hope for Wives. I'm not the lead host I just get to be on there. They let me talk about a bunch of stuff. So it's really nice, but Hope for Wives, and it's on all the major platforms. And they're also welcome to email us. We have a contact form on our website, but they can also email us directly at support@hoperedefined.org.
Roane Hunter 28:34
Awesome. Wow, thank you so much., Lyshcel. Appreciate you sitting with us and look forward to more work together. Thank you so much.
Lyschel Burket 28:46
Thanks, Roane. I really appreciate it.
Ben Derrick 28:50
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